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| Red dye http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47633 |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Red dye |
I am working with a set of curly Narra (Padauk family) that was once a bright crimson red. It's still pretty red 5 years after acquiring it but I know that it will eventually brown. I'd like to preserve the red color with a dye but I don't want it to look over the top and unnatural. Anyone found anything that fits the bill? |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
My brother builds a lot oh high end furniture and really likes these: https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... LW-WCON.XX |
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| Author: | Bri [ Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
I use something similar to what Clinch suggested, but I get it from Lee Valley. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.a ... ,190,42942 |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Water based aniline dyes tend to raise the grain and be less light fast than metal acid dyes (TransTint, Mohawk ultra penetrating stain. etc.) but do have better color selections. |
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| Author: | bionta [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
I've used the Lockwood dyes quite a lot, mostly about 15 or 20 years ago. They are not light-fast. I've had considerable fading on furniture I made back then and even on pieces that have not been near windows or any particularly strong light. |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Another approach would be to add a small amount of finely ground artist's color (pigment or paint) to your finishing material, essentially making your own pigment based stain and/or tinted glaze coats. I'm not sure I'd trust any dye to be light fast over the long term, though some may be pretty good. If you just want to enhance the red a bit, ruby shellac as a finish is nice. Being dichroic, it does need to go on pretty thickly to get the red color. A thin coat will appear amber. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
I come from a fine art background, oil painting specifically. Oil colours don't fade and can be made into a wash with thinner. I don't think this would fade but I'm not sure if it can be finished over. In its simplest form it's linseed oil and pigment. Making it a wash probably chemically changes it as you add thinner. I 'd use this method as it won't fade but I don't know that it can be finished over. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Just thinking out loud- I suppose the best potential solution would be to see if alcohol (everclear) can be used as a vehicle to deliver the pigment instead of thinner as a painter would use. If that's the case then in theory I would be able to apply an alcohol/oil paint wash to the wood, although it would not absorb as effectively as a water based die and likely be surface only, which leaves plenty more problems to deal with. Is this a waste of time to experiment with or has anyone finished wood over oil based stains and if so what's the best way to succeed? |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Isn't it true that the oxidation issue of concern is primarily promoted by sunlight (UV)? Will any protected wood discolor (in a lifetime) due to exposure to air only? My instrument room is climate controlled, and shades keep it pretty dark. Yeah, they got to come out and play, but for the most part, keep the photon count low. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Isn't it true that the oxidation issue of concern is primarily promoted by sunlight (UV)? Will any protected wood discolor (in a lifetime) due to exposure to air only? My instrument room is climate controlled, and shades keep it pretty dark. Yeah, they got to come out and play, but for the most part, keep the photon count low. What I've been told is that Padauk/Narra etc will fade due to not only UV but also due to oxidation over time. I have no way to verify either circumstance other than hear-say. I just really love the color of the Narra and I don't want it to fade. I've put a lot of thought into the color scheme of the natural woods and would hate to see the main color fade. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
I've used oil colors in traditional oil-based filler. Seal with shellac and finish normally. Don't think I would use linseed oil due to the long dry time. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
http://www.sanfootpro.com/SANFOOT%20-%2 ... rticle.pdf |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
In our home furnishing business we used Minwax oil based stains exclusively -- where as the water born products (stains/dyes) sucked the life out of the wood (dull blotchy etc.) the Minwax oil base did/does just the opposite. Seems to have some reflective properties that really enhance the grain and figure features of the each piece of wood -- try it you'll like it. Now here is the caveat --- you must wait for the product to dry completely especially if using nitro lacquer top coat. Oil and WB polys and varnishes are more forgiving but still its important to let the stain dry. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
One caveat to using pigments. They tend to give an opaque paint like finish when used heavily.If you use boiled linseed oil (which has dryers added) as the carrier, allow it to dry for a couple of weeks before top coating. Cocobolo darkens, walnut fades, most woods develop a patina with age. Many of us consider it as part of the beauty of wood. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
A year and a half ago I made an Osage Orange guitar - at the time the color was electric yellow. Now the outside is a very mellow honey brown under the lacquer, but the unfinished inside is still pretty yellow. This makes me think it is exposure to light and not air that changes the color Ed |
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| Author: | Robert Lak [ Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red dye |
Whatever you decide, please post pics when done. I bought a couple of nice padauk sets a year ago that have already faded and it would be nice to try to preserve the original color. Sadly I am fairly sure the only way to do that will to be to do a "Hesh sunburst" (Paint it black!) so I think I may just let them grow old gracefully and enjoy what they want to be... |
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